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01/06/2004 Archived Entry: "This is what we're up against."
This is what we're up against.
I had a phone conversation with the owner of an ad agency that I design sites for this morning, covering work that is coming up over the next couple of months. At the time of the morning that he called, I was in the midst of editing the early edition of the news for IEAmerica, so I couldn't talk long. But I did want to mention that an ad submitted to the MoveOn 'Bush In 30 Seconds' contest by my TBTM partner Symbolman was one of the 15 finalists, so I asked him whether he was aware of the MoveOn contest.
He answered, 'Oh, you mean the Bush-Hitler thing?'
Now, I know that this guy is a conservative (although he's one of the rare, reasonably open-minded ones), and I also know he listens to the conservative haters who infest NYC radio. But it's alittle distressing that the only thing a lot of people know about the MoveOn contest is the 'Bush-Hitler thing' - especially since that ad was never considered as a potential winner and didn't even make the cut for the finals.
I'm going to talk to him later today, at which point I'll explain to him how he's been punked by the RNC into thinking that MoveOn even endorsed the ad in question to begin with.
Replies: 12 people speak up
Well, unfortunately people who dont know what they are talking about will always be offended by someone who does know what they are talking about explaining reality to them. Someone who doesnt understand never will, at least not without something dramatic happening to their lifestyle (such as a lay off, or a life threatening injury that their insurance doesnt cover, or an unjust arrest for commiting a consensual crime). Instead they just feel threatened and insulted.
I discovered this point while trying to have a simple polite political discussion with my conservative catholic relatives over Xmas (a discussion that i might add they started, by bringing up "how great it is to have a president with the morals to ban partial birth abortion)
anyway, happy new years everyone. i havnt even looked at my computer in almost 2 weeks, so im a little bit late with that.
Posted by justin @ 01/06/2004 03:03 PM NY
Wes Boyd's response may be helpful in setting your ad agency guy straight:
http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html
Posted by lonestar @ 01/06/2004 03:51 PM NY
The irony is that Bush Co.'s influence/control/intimidation of the media is so pervasive that it's difficult not to draw parallels with other unsavory political figures of the recent past.
I was watching the News Hour on PBS last week. They showed a segment on how US soldiers deal with alleged insurgents. The tactics were rough to say the least. For commentary the moderator interviewed two retired Lt. Colonels. In short, the first Lt. Col. said those tactics were swell, the other said they were super-swell. WTF!? Where's the commentary? It was pathetic. I was pissed-off at the lack of debate. That is but one sample of the tenor of the News Hour. I've noticed a decided move to the Right over the past few years. I will not be renewing my annual support of PBS this year. Fuck 'em, they are mediawhores like all the rest of 'em. A little bit more discreet perhaps, but mediawhores nonetheless.
Justin,
Good to have you back. A piece of friendly advice: don't even bother to debate political issues with conservative family members -- it'll just lead to grief and aggravation. I should know: my wife's a Republican, anti-union, and loves Bush.
Posted by Metropolitan99 @ 01/06/2004 04:03 PM NY
I agree with you concerning the News Hour, but NOW with Bill Moyers and Frontline have done a pretty good job exposing the wingnuts, don't you think so?
Posted by Mem'rybanker @ 01/06/2004 04:24 PM NY
Metro and Justin:
Not all such discussions are pointless; after nearly a year of discussion with two conservative friends of mine, I've convinced both to not vote Bush in 04 (one is going to vote for whomever the Libertarian candidate is, the other simply isn't going to vote at all.)
Two down, 48 million to go.
Posted by Mixer @ 01/06/2004 06:41 PM NY
Mem'rybanker,
The reason why I contributed my $80 was because of Bill Moyers. Yes, NOW and Frontline remain excellent. But I'd rather watch the CBC or the BBC than the News Hour.
Mixer,
You're an inspiration. My hat's off to you. My gut reaction to discussions with neo-cons (as opposed to paleo-cons) is a twitch in my right hand as I grasp an imaginary crowbar.
Posted by Metropolitan99 @ 01/06/2004 06:53 PM NY
Reuters smears MoveOn response:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=3&u=/nm/20040106/od_nm/politics_hitler_dc
A reuters article by Steve Gorman completely distorts the MoveOn response. Headlined "US Liberal Group Sorry for Hitler/Bush Comparison" the article states that "After being roundly denounced by Jewish leaders and Republicans, MoveOn.org issued a mea culpa saying the two ads were in poor taste."
To anyone who has read the MoveOn response, it most certainly is NOT a mea culpa.
From the Reuters site -
CONTACT A REUTERS EDITOR: Our editors are interested in your comments. Please send us your feedback on Reuters news or photos.
http://www.reuters.com/-helpSectionContactUs.jhtml
I did. Here's my response:
re: Steve Gorman's article -
Home > News > Oddly Enough > Article
US Liberal Group Sorry for Hitler/Bush Comparison
Tue January 6, 2004 10:09 AM ET
This article was highly misleading and dishonest. Reading the MoveOn response at:
http://moveonvoterfund.org/smear/release.html
It is clear that the MoveOn response in no way fits any definition of a "mea culpa." Nor does the group say it is sorry for the Bush/Hitler comparison. They merely stated that they did not agree with the sentiment of the two submissions and that they regretted that their filtering system didn't prevent them from being viewed by the public. They then drew the comparison of GOP ads that morphed the face of war veteran Max Cleland into Osama bin Laden.
I respectfully suggest that Steve Gorman submit himself quickly to some remedial journalism instruction (i.e. research your subject rather than simply regurgitate a press release from the RNC). Otherwise I suspect Mr. Gorman's internship at the respectable Reuters will be short lived.
Posted by Larry Dean @ 01/06/2004 07:58 PM NY
And to see how respectful the freepers are, check out the Clinton/Hitler photo they've posted at:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051485/posts
(Scroll down to post # 24)
Posted by Larry Dean @ 01/06/2004 08:02 PM NY
If the right really wants us to quit comparing Bush to Hitler maybe they can get Mr. Sock Puppet to stop:
1. Criminalizing an unpopular religion
2. Passing laws that give up freedom for "national security".
3. Stop invading countries by using lies to pump up popular support.
Posted by Old Fashioned Patriot @ 01/07/2004 12:57 AM NY
Metro,
It's not hard to talk to conservatives - you just have to use the right words and pick your subjects. For example:
If you are talking to a "free-marketer," mention to them that Bush is pushing for a reduction in the time it takes medicines to go generic - which is government manipulation of the marketplace, a "fine Liberal tradition."
For the "small government" types, mention that Bush wins the Government Growth contest (beating R. Reagan and W. Clinton by 400%) at a whopping 25%+ growth each year of his presedency. Sure, he had to grow the government to fight the War on Terra, but a *real* conservative would have reduced other areas of the government proportionally. "Bill Clinton should be proud."
If they are "fiscal conservatives" refers to the deficit as 'living month-to-month on our National Credit Card' and that Bush inherited a surplus and turned it into record deficits in record time. He may have needed to spend the extra money, but a conservative would have cut spending in other areas to compensate. "And I thought spending money we didn't have was a Liberal tactic!"
If they are "isolationists" remind them that Bush has weakened the dollar to the point where our goods are in demand overseas. This is somewhat good for the economy, but makes us dependent on foreign markets for our revenue. "I'm glad to see that Bush has adopted Naders stance that we're one global village."
Remember to repeat often that the Democrats have no power in Washington now; these are pure Republican initiative. Also state that having the Neo-Cons 'steal' Liberal ideas and implement them has really helped them solidify their control of the country.
Another good tactic to to get the person to differentiate themselves from the neo-cons ('Are you a real conservative, or a Neo-Con?'); once that happens, you can blame all the 'bad stuff' on Bush being a Neo-Con and pointing out they control the Republicans and the government. Helps to re-direct the anger and frustration internally without directing it to themselves.
Then point out that Dean has an 'A' rating from the NRA, is the governor of a state full of Libertarians and has a history of not touching property taxes (the only times he has raised them was after protracted battles with the state legislatures that he eventually lost.)
Just my .02 Euros
(What? You mean you haven't bought foreign currency yet?)
Mixer
Posted by Mixer @ 01/07/2004 09:19 AM NY
Gotta love the 'Liberal Media' - an addenda to the above post:
For the 'isolationists,' point out that Bush is moving forward with legalizing illegal immigrants ("Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free...") This will also play in well with the "fiscal conservatives" if you point out these folks are 'stealing' jobs.
BTW - I'm using the conservative phraseology to describe these conditions. That doesn't mean I agree with the implication; for example, most of these illegal workers are performing in jobs that most people don't want/won't do anyway - not to mention the benefit of offsetting the looming worker shortage we're going to have in the next 10 years. But, a big part of talking to conservatives is to use their language.
Another example:
Liberalspeak - Bush has a horrendous record on abortion, forcing his morals on women who choose to have a partial birth abortion. Granted, it's rarely used, but the fact is that it restricts a womans right to choose.
Moderatespeak - Bush has a horrendous record on abortion, helping to pass a late-term partial abortion ban. While at face value ineffective, it offers a stepping stone to future legislation that is more specific.
Conservativespeak - Bush has a horrendous record on abortion, promising to stop the baby-killing, but the baby-killing continues. All he's managed to do is pass a piece of useless legislation that affects hardly any abortions being performed.
Basically, each statement is the same, but the emotional weight of the words used is different depending on the viewpoint of the reader/listener.
Just another peseta.
Mixer
Posted by Mixer @ 01/07/2004 11:08 AM NY
It's not that conservatives have been "punked" into thinking that moveon endorsed the ad. It's that these are the kind of people drawn to the democrat party. Your people LOVE to point out the wackos who bomb abortion clinics and stick the mainstream conservative or even "christian" label on them. Two sides of the same coin, my friend. :-)
Posted by Joel @ 01/14/2004 12:43 AM NY
