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03/30/2004 Archived Entry: "Someone came by today..."
Someone came by today...
...and brought up Kerry's supposed 'flip-flops.'
So, Kathleen, this one's for you.
Replies: 14 people speak up
Wow!...the SCLM is showing some "L" in that one....GOOD!
Posted by kendog @ 03/30/2004 09:29 PM NY
Don't forget Bush's countless speeches of "personal responsibility"Today's misleader talks about his lack or responsibility.
Posted by JD Linx @ 03/30/2004 10:07 PM NY
Meanwhile, CNN's Newsnight is slugging the mind-changing by Rice as "RICE TO TESTIFY: WHITE HOUSE FLIP FLOP"!
Hope the Kerry campaign got a screen shot of it.
Posted by Hoffmania! @ 03/30/2004 10:07 PM NY
Name one politician who's been in office for more than 7 hours who hasn't flipped on at least one subject.
The only question we can ask is, "Were you lying to me then, or are you lying to me now?" The more optimistic approach is to assume that something, some significant new data has helped them change their opinion....nahhh, just a new poll.
Posted by Murphy @ 03/31/2004 12:46 AM NY
Murph,
That's my point, pretty much. The person who brought up the flip-flop (Kerry's) brought it up in answer to the fundraiser that named our erstwgile allies as possible targets in the WOT.
My response was that she really didn't want to go there, because Bush had a few choice flips of his own.
Posted by editor @ 03/31/2004 02:42 AM NY
Old timers like me will remember Republicans wanting to "win one for the Gipper!"
This year, the Republicans want to "win one for the Flipper!"
Posted by George Johnston @ 03/31/2004 04:21 AM NY
I don't know if that is in the same league as voted aganist the war (1990), voted for the war (2003), voted not give the troops the money they needed to do the job well, and then complaining that he regretted voting for the war, but sying he would probably do it again.
The man is all over the map, you must admit.
Posted by rogersj52003@yahoo.com @ 03/31/2004 05:02 AM NY
You're missing the point, rogers. The point *isn't* that Kerry has not flip-flopped, the point is that Bush has too, a lot. Bush accusing Kerry of flip-flopping is like a baseball player who corks his bat accusing the pitcher of juicing the ball. I think the point editor was making, in essence was: "Kathleen (and any other Bush supporters who bring up Kerry's flip-flops)...Pot, meet Kettle!"
Posted by Tina @ 03/31/2004 10:10 AM NY
For the record, from the Daily Kos is a long list of Bush flip-flops. Speaking of all over the map...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/3/7/213753/1954
Posted by Tina @ 03/31/2004 10:20 AM NY
Kerry flip flopping on issues like supporting or not supporting a war and then saying he will still vote for it, is flip flopping
As an example on Korea ,bush said that talks would not be held one on one, then another counry stepped in and offerd help to contain the situation, then and only then did Bush agree
maybe Hienzco/Kerryco should decide a position and stay there
Personally i dont beleive any politician can not flip flop. think of it this way. on your way to the gorcery at the stop light straight is the way to the store, but there is a yard sale to the right, you go to the yard sale first, did you flip flop?
Posted by Robin Hacker @ 03/31/2004 11:32 AM NY
my bad that was a left at the stop light
Posted by Robin Hacker @ 03/31/2004 11:36 AM NY
Robin - read the link to D-Kos, and you might amend you're 'pick a position and stay there' statement to include Bush.
The only difference between the two sides on this is that Bush swears he doesn't flip, and people like you believe him for some reason.
Posted by editor @ 03/31/2004 11:51 AM NY
Well at least they're tiptoing towards it.
How about:
Promised to release his entire military records, then didn't (discharge documents and medical records are still missing)
Promised not to roll back abortion rights then attacked them from every angle relentlessly
Promised to be a uniter not a div--- aw hell, it's just easier to list the stuff he DIDN'T flip flop on
Posted by Peanut @ 03/31/2004 01:29 PM NY
Apples and oranges.
Bush flips on principles. Kerry flips as negotiating points. Both reflect the realities of their offices as well how they stand on principle.
For example: Office of Homeland Security. This was originally proposed by John McCain and Joe Leiberman. Bush originally OPPOSED it on principle. Once it became clear that the "Lieberman-McCain Bill" would pass, only then did Bush jump on board. However, John Kerry along with most of the other Democrats wanted to ensure union rights for the workers in this new huge agency and used his vote as leverage for this. He voted against the bill (which he supported in principle) in an effort to force the acceptance of union rights for the workers in this new agency. When it became clear that the votes weren't there to provide for union rights, he then acquiesced and voted for the bill which again, he had supported in principle.
The nature of the Congressional branch is more along the line of a poker game. If you make a bet in a poker game and then someone raises your bet to which you again raise their bet, you don't call that a flip flop. "Aw man. What a flip flopper! You originally bet $15 but your now betting $25! What is it? $25 or $15 Mr. Flopper?" Your using the rules and mechanisims of the "game" to get what you want.
To those who don't understand this I have a suggestion:
Tune in more C-SPAN, and tune in less Rush/Fox/Hannity/American Idol/etc.
Or maybe even crack a civics book.
Posted by Larry Dean @ 03/31/2004 03:51 PM NY
